From the Container Up: Using Shipping Containers to Create Industrial Buildings w/ Corner Cast Construction [podcast transcript]

Welcome everyone. My name is John McMullen. And I'm the Marketing Director here at MBI. Today I'm talking with Rene Bernaert owner and Chief Operating Officer at Corner Cast Construction. Rene is going to talk about the ins and outs of container-based buildings and their potential for industrial use. Rene welcome.

Rene Bernaert 

Yeah, thanks for having me.

John McMullen 

My pleasure. So tell me about yourself, Rene. How did you get your start in the industry and what led to you going into modular and offsite construction?

Rene Bernaert 

Well, the first time I was introduced to the concept of offset construction must have been at the University. And I believe there was an assignment for a multi-story, parking garage with prefab concrete elements. And then when it was time to do my internship, I found the possibility to go to Italy and work at the HUD headquarters are one of the world's largest preset facade designer and manufacturer. And to be honest, my main motivation was to go to live in Italy, the combination of the combination of the off site manufacturing and the on site, installation really, really grabbed me.

John McMullen 

Awesome. And we've had an earlier conversation you said you went to school in Holland, is that right?

Rene Bernaert 

Yes. Correct. I did my master degrees in Holland.

John McMullen 

So you've been all over?

Rene Bernaert 

I have been traveling around, yeah. That's good.

John McMullen 

That's awesome. Um, when did you first become aware of the possibility of using shipping containers to create buildings? Were you excited about that at the start? Or did you kind of have to warm up to that idea?

Rene Bernaert 

Well, my first introduction must have been 10 years later, after my internship there I had moved to Canada, after finishing my master's in Holland, and after working as a production engineer in for the same Italian company in Montreal, I was actually looking for a new challenge. And when a friend of mine who works in logistics, he told me he was looking for an apartment and he visited a new building that was built out of containers. But well, he wasn't inside. Although he has been working in logistics all his life. He said he couldn't tell he was in a container.

So that that was interesting, but then he also told me that that that company or building was actually looking for hire people. And that actually interested in even more. So long story short, I was hired as a project manager there and I was put in charge of the 63-container workers accommodation built in northern Nunavut.

John McMullen 

Well that was a lucky break!

So, container buildings have been gaining a lot of momentum over the past several years. And I've seen a variety of really creative homes and retail spaces. We get a lot of them in our Awards of Distinction entries every year. Based on your experience a Corner Cast, why do you think containers have become so popular in the industrial building sector?

Rene Bernaert 

Very good question. Yes. So yeah, you're seeing residential and retail is very popular, and it's, it's obviously more visible than the industrial sector. But we mainly serve the industrial sector and yes, we are noticing an increase. And I think it's mainly due to the fact that containers are more and more accepted as a way of building. So just like my friend who didn't realize he was in a shipping container, we still get often the same reaction today. So when a client has that reaction, they they are hooked.

John McMullen 

And you bring up a good point. I brought up residential retail spaces, which are often the sort of the cover stories for container buildings, but But you guys corner cast specializes more on industrial buildings. So when you say industrial just so everyone listening is clear. What does that mean? An industrial building made out of containers?

Rene Bernaert 

So one of our main product is our maintenance garage. That's where we use where we use the shipping containers as a base for a lightweight structure. So we use the shipping containers as offices, locker rooms, compressor rooms, new rooms, everything is prefab pre built within the containers, then we place them and we build a structure between the containers, creating a large open space for truck maintenance, or...

John McMullen 

Okay, got it. So I was wondering if you could speak to the quality control aspect of building with containers? Because I don't know much about this. How are they inspected? Initially when when corner cast first takes possession of them? How do you inspect them? And and what criteria are there for using them in industrial projects? I guess the simple question is: Are all containers built the same? Can you use them in the same ways?

Rene Bernaert 

Largely Yes, so So are they build the same. Shipping Containers are all built using the same standards ISO guidelines that dictates strength, building material, paint spec, etc. But there are there are slight differences between different mates. So the containers are made in different factories and different factories do have slight differences such as the shape of the bottom rail changes, which seems insignificant, but for us within our design, we need to know that.

So when a container comes in, there's three or four items that we check right away, because we know that they have an influence on our design. Yeah, all the differences are between different types of containers. So you have 20 foot containers, or 40 foot containers, then, for example, and they have particular features, for example, 40 foot high cube has a gooseneck, which is a different structure within a floor.

53-foot containers are actually eight feet six wide, where actually the rest are eight feet wide. So there's there's differences.

John McMullen 

So with all these different shapes and sizes and ways of construction, are there challenges that you've encountered? When starting out on an industrial container building? Are there specific design or construction requirements that are trickier than others?

Rene Bernaert 

That's a very interesting question. I think, well, let's go back to start when we started Corner Cast, we were very much focused on existing prefab market sectors. But we had a very hard time competing with existing solutions. So we started more to focus on the type of project where functionality is more important than aesthetics. There's something to say, for containers using containers.

But we were facing the fact that most of these type of buildings were not considered to be built as prefab, let alone with containers. So for a long time, we found ourselves redesigning complete complexes and structures, to able to use shipping and things and is often involve a good understanding and rearranging complete processes because we change layouts. Oh, we were really introducing a new way of building in this sector. And it was hard to break that mold.

Until we did several successful projects, where today we see our concept being used as a solution. And we're often even asked to help design, sometimes as early as in a feasibility. That's that's that's where that's the difference. I think it's a more more generally accepted concept.

John McMullen 

Another question that that I don't know the answer to and I'm curious about are there jurisdictional or code restrictions that you've had to navigate when building with containers? Given that they are these prefab elements that you're bringing in from from other sources?

Rene Bernaert 

Well, I think everybody has enough. I mean, every general contractor needs to respect local building codes, whether you're building a shipping container or in wood, but answering your question that was so into reading building codes, while using shipping containers does get a little trickier, mainly because these guidelines are built are made around wood structures, not necessarily steel containers. So yes, that does take some, that does take some creativity sometimes. But we were never stopped using shipping containers due to crustaceans.

John McMullen 

What's the what's the biggest advantage to building with containers?

Rene Bernaert 

Yeah, that's that's a question I get a lot. And I don't think there's one particular advantage. I think it's, I think that there are several aspects that that all have influence on the choice of using shipping containers for project.

Portability is one, availability, speed of production, structural integrity, etc. Those are I think what it comes down to is, is to use these aspects in to your advantage as much as possible when you're designing or executing your project.

John McMullen 

Have you guys been affected by supply chain challenges at all with getting containers? Is that become more of an issue? Or is that not a factor?

Rene Bernaert 

Um, so far, convenience suppliers hasn't been the bottleneck.

John McMullen 

Okay.

Rene Bernaert 

It's more on our elements such as fans.

John McMullen

Got it.

Rene Bernaert 

There's all elements that will be put to use and have been...

John McMullen 

That you're putting into the containers that you...

Rene Bernaert 

Yeah, exactly.

John McMullen 

Gotcha.

Rene Bernaert 

So, electrical components are hard to get.

John McMullen 

What advice would you give to designers or builders who are tackling their first container project?

Rene Bernaert 

I think there's two major items. First, you need a good design. Sounds straightforward. But you need a good design that deals with certain elements of the container, such as weather proofing and thermal bridging.

Then once once you've got a good design, use a general contractor that knows containers. Don't just go into a container yard and ask them to cut some containers open for you. Use a general contractor because this is key for success.

John McMullen 

Are there is there a particular element of containers that requires that a detailed knowledge you were mentioning before about the different shapes of beams and the floors? And things like that? Are there very specific things that people will need to watch out for when using a container for the first time?

Rene Bernaert 

Well, those small details only become important when you have built on a larger scale. I see. Okay, you can it's not that difficult to  navigate those elements when you're just building a one off.

John McMullen 

Gotcha. Okay. Different kind of question for you. What's the future of container buildings? Do you foresee containers primarily being used for industrial use, like Corner Cast does? Or is it going to you think it'll go more towards residential or retail? Or is the sky the limit?

Rene Bernaert 

Well, I do think there's a limit for the use of containers because they're cool. Okay. I mean, once more people start building or using them because they're cool, then they're not cool anymore. Makes sense. So it's "cool factor" will decrease the effect, but that'll mainly affect residential and retail, I think. But I do believe containers are being widely accepted now. And when use for the right projects, they are there to stay as an alternative.

John McMullen 

Okay, so tell me about your World of Modular presentation. You're going to be presenting in April. We'll be in San Antonio, so I was wondering if you could tell me about that presentation. And specifically, what will attendees learn and what are you excited to share?

Rene Bernaert 

Yes, I'm very excited about this. And so yes, I will be talking the same subjects. So I'll be sharing my my experience with designing and building and so the title will be "Shipping Containers Go Where Wood and Steel Frames Don't...But Where Do They Go?" And the subtitle would be, "When Are Shipping Containers the Right Solutions?" And I've already mentioned this some aspects earlier in this interview that I will be diving into and explaining how how views container features in your advantage when you're using containers for a construction project.

John McMullen 

Very cool. I think containers are fascinating. So I can't wait. I appreciate your time today, Rene. I really do. And I look forward to seeing you in April at World of Modular.

Rene Bernaert 

Thank you very much.

John McMullen 

My name is John McMullen. And this has been another episode of Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction. Until next time.