Making the Case for Modular System Integration w/ The Cornerstone Collective [podcast transcript]

Welcome everyone. My name is John McMullen, and I'm the Marketing Director here at MBI. Today I'm talking with Suzie Hall, Founder and President of the Cornerstone Collective. Suzie is here today to talk about her experience in the modular construction industry, and the importance of communication in the modular design process.

Suzie, it's great to talk with you.

Suzie Hall

Thank you, John, you as well.

John McMullen

So, tell me about yourself Suzie, what's your background and how did you come to found the Cornerstone Collective?

Suzie Hall

I grew up in the Seattle area. I'm a graduate of the University of Puget Sound and after graduation, I went into the commercial design sector. I founded Cornerstone Design in 1992 and over the years, really became a fan of the integrated design process, getting very involved with LEED and sustainable projects in the mid-2000s. And being a lifelong entrepreneur, at the beginning of this year, I launched a second entity called the Cornerstone Collective, which is a fully vertically integrated design and construction solution that accelerates and simplifies the hospitality, multifamily and healthcare development process.

John McMullen

Very good. So, you the Cornerstone Collective then offers a wide variety of services and that includes modular and offsite services. Is that right?

Suzie Hall 

Yes, we provide consulting, design, procurement, sustainability, lead and integration services across those markets that I mentioned with a special focus and heavy emphasis on modular and offsite. One of our bailiwicks says that we really focus on the micro details that are so important toward the end of a project, as well as understanding the macro view.

John McMullen

Gotcha. So, one of the things that stuck out to me during our initial conversations was a term that you used modular system integration. Can you explain that to me? What is modular system integration?

Suzie Hall

Yep. So according to the dictionary, a system is a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network. Well, in the modular and offsite industry, that takes place in my experience within silos. So master planning, architecture, engineering, interiors, modular factory, site built, procurement, landscape. All of those are silos, so to speak, that are a system within themselves. What we mean by modular system integration is encompassing all of those silos, encouraging cross communication, collaboration, and teamwork. And since we speak those languages across the board to some level, we see ourselves as the glue or, or the quarterback, if you will of the team.

John McMullen

Can you give me an example of what you mean by using one of your recent projects?

Suzie Hall

Sure. Our recent hospitality project, we were in the design development phase toward the end of it, and the first floor had a site-built portion and then guestrooms on the first floor.  Well, when the architect was leading a meeting, and we were all looking at renderings, etc. the ceiling heights didn't match up. There hadn't been any communication about what the prototype ceiling height was in the guestroom and how that connected to the site-built portion. And so, they were being designed, if you will, in silos where the modular factory was taking the lead on the prototype modules as they should have been. But there was that missing link of Oh, how did these two pieces come together? And hey, we've got a discrepancy of about seven inches, which then it was kind of coiling the design back to an earlier layer, so that those two could join up and move forward.

John McMullen

So, what's your experience in the modular sector over the past several years? What are some of the key lessons you've learned?

Suzie Hall

First, to ask a lot of questions, to understand the starting point and the end point. Also, to ensure that all stakeholders are on the calls and in the meetings and not to expect that they'll necessarily read the meeting minutes. I think we're all guilty of that a little bit, right? But if there's that one important meeting that the electrical engineer or the structural engineer isn't a part of, and then the whole thing keeps rolling. In my experience, there's usually come a point where it's a cog in the wheel. I also believe that nobody has all the answers, and to really buy into that integrated design process. And then when it comes to the construction portion, having the modular factory and the site GC be very, very connected and not to assume anything.

John McMullen

I think I think those are all great points. One of the one of the things I heard you say, and I'm really glad you brought up this point about connection, upfront communication, and making sure the scope of the project is understood. It brings to mind other conversations I've had recently, and I know many others in the industry are having them as well, about the misconceptions of modular but particularly when it comes to the price of modular projects. What's your take on that?

Suzie Hall

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of missing clarity in the industry. I agree, I think there's a misnomer out there that the general public might think that oh, "modular's less expensive" and I don't exactly know why they think that. The solution, because of the quality and the speed to market and everything like that, yes hotels, and housing opens a lot sooner; hospitals can be built a lot faster, which then results in greater revenue generation earlier. So, when you think of lifecycle costs, yes, it's very straightforward case, in my opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the building products are less expensive, or the labor is less expensive. Obviously, the labor market and where projects are being built, will indicate a clear path forward for offsite and modular solutions. But when we help educate our clients and developers about the price of modular, we have a pretty robust conversation around all of those key points, and that it's not side by side, oh, pick the modular one, because the price tag is lower off the shelf.

John McMullen

There's so many other things to consider with modular. You've got your materials and your labor. But then I think a lot of people fail to consider the cost of actually getting it from the factory to the site, craning it on to the site actually making the building a building. So, it's just something I like to bring up with people and have conversations about because it's a big misconception, and I think it’s on us as part of the industry to sort of help educate people about that aspect of projects. Are there any other myths and misconceptions of modular construction that you find yourself dealing with regularly?

Suzie Hall

Yes. In the US, I think there is a misconception that modular means not attractive, on the interiors, sometimes on the exterior. That's something that I believe, is because of the genesis of the industry in the United States, versus the genesis of modular say, in Europe, where a lot of it spawned from furniture companies, and the furniture and furnishings industry. So, their product has just historically been more integrated and more focused on the finer details. Now their product when side by side against the US product, in my opinion, you can tell the difference, but it doesn't have to be that way.

So, I think a misconception is that Oh, just because we're thinking about modular means we're going to have to take a step down on the aesthetic. And it's similar to when LEED first came on the market, and we were early adopters of LEED, our collective we have designed and administered over 100 LEED projects over the years. Same thing, everyone thought that for a lead or a sustainable project, it had to look recycled. So, we set out on a mission to really show that No, just because it's sustainable, and high recycled content, rapidly renewable, formaldehyde free, no off gassing, et cetera. It can still look amazing, and it doesn't have to cost anymore. So, there's those big misconceptions out in the marketplace that still exist around modular.

John McMullen

Can you tell me about some of the other notable modular projects you've worked on recently, maybe with an emphasis of showing that modular design can be just as attractive, just as intricate as traditional construction?

Suzie Hall

Yes, we actually have two affordable housing, multifamily projects in California that we are in both on design and development on and the interior renderings we've produced when we share them with the larger team. Everyone said, oh my gosh, those look amazing, but they must be expensive. And it was kind of a wakeup call for me because we knew they weren't any more expensive than pulling a design off the shelf because we knew the products and materials that went into it. So, part of that education process is just because it's affordable, or even housing for the homeless, it can still look decent. We still want to deliver that quality, a decent quality, and it doesn't have to cost any more.

Then in a hotel project that went on hold, due to COVID and it's just coming back online, is the integration of the FF and E and the OS and E package with the prototype, and the finishes all coming together in really great harmony, and how you a little bit of fun with color and having some standout features, even though it's a prototype. There are some public space areas that we have been able to set apart from the rest.

John McMullen

Well, that's cool. Those sound like great projects, I'd love to, you help make some noise about a case study. If you wanted to put one together, send it to us, we can put it on the website. We love doing that kind of thing for our members.

Suzie Hall

Thank you, I appreciate the invitation and I'll be speaking on a panel at the Advancing Prefabrication conference in Dallas, and we might have a case study ready at that time as well.

John McMullen 

Very good. So, what's the rest of the year look like for you? Are you already booked through the rest of the year, you started planning 2022?

Suzie Hall

Yes, we started planning through 2024 being involved in these large affordable housing projects, wanting to use the modular solution. A big part of our approach is that we have relationships with many factories across North America and we want to help increase capacity so that we can provide a template for delivering affordable housing solutions and homeless housing solutions to multiple cities across the United States. As we all know, that's a huge problem in our country.

So, we have geared up and our raising capital toward that and partnering with nonprofits, having conversations with factories about their products so that we can engage as many modular factories and team members as possible. So just in the last few weeks, it seems like someone has turned the faucet on. I don't know if you're feeling that, but all of a sudden, it's very, very busy out there both on the multifamily and the hospitality side.

John McMullen

Well, that's fantastic. I love all the work with affordable housing. There's huge potential for the industry, I think. So, anything we can do to help you out there, please do let us know.

Suzie Hall

Wonderful. Yes, we'd love to.

John McMullen

Thank you so much for your time today Suzie. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your perspective on the communication, and I loved hearing about the projects you guys are working on.

Suzie Hall 

Yeah, thank you and just you know, as a parting thought, just having a game plan. My background, my dad was a major college football coach. So, I've always had that kind of perspective. It's a team and someone's got to be leading the team. And having that game plan is so important on all of these projects.

John McMullen

I agree. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Suzie Hall

Thank you, John. It's been enjoyable. I appreciate it.

John McMullen

Sure. My name is John McMullen, and this has been another episode of Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction. Until next time.